Dave Cawley: Morning dawned on day two of the search for Susan Powell with more cold, icy weather over West Valley City, Utah. The storm that’d painted the western U.S. white with snow the day prior was still pushing on to the east, the back edge just clearing the Rocky Mountains.
Detective Ellis Maxwell hadn’t slept much. West Valley’s lead detective on the case had stayed up late the night before, following his frustrating first interview with Susan’s husband, Josh. Josh’d returned from an unexpected winter camping trip with this sons Charlie and Braden on Monday afternoon, claiming to have no idea where Susan’d gone.
At about 8 on Tuesday morning, Ellis called Josh. He wanted to confirm Josh planned to come in for a follow-up interview at 9 a.m. He also wanted to make sure the boys weren’t there, as they’d been on Monday night.
Ellis Maxwell: The kids were there and it made it very challenging because he used that opportunity to avoid answering questions. And they were also a distraction as well.
Dave Cawley: The phone rang and rang until it went to voicemail. Josh was dodging him. Not a promising start to the day. Next, Ellis called Josh’s sister, Jennifer. She said she hadn’t heard from her brother that morning.
Jennifer Graves: We were already on our way, but the weather was pretty bad and the roads were eh, pretty, pretty scary and we were moving pretty slow. And so there was no way were gonna make it by the time he needed to leave in order to be on time for that appointment either way. But we said we would be as quick as we could. And, and we would be happy to take the kids while he dealt with that appointment. And we were, y’know, I was happy, I don’t know how my mother was feeling. I’m sure she was not happy about the situation at all, in any way. But I was happy that he was going in; that he had that appointment. Because I felt like, “ok now, now they are gonna get to the bottom of it. They’re going to figure out what happened and maybe he’ll, he’ll come clean.” And no matter what’s happened — it’s gonna be a crappy situation no matter what’s happened — but if he comes clean, than we can at least move forward.
Dave Cawley: This is Cold, Episode 5: Ten Minutes. I’ve Dave Cawley.
[Ad break]
Dave Cawley: Josh’d also got up early on that Tuesday morning. Neighbors saw his minivan backed into the driveway at 8 a.m. He’d opened all the doors and was busy cleaning out the interior. Dax Guzman, one of those neighbors, had heard Susan was missing. He dropped by to check on Josh.
Dax Guzman: I drove up, he was, he was getting in their van with the boys and I stopped by and I just parked behind him. He asked me if I wanted to go inside and I felt kind of weird about the whole situation and maybe it’s me being paranoid — but not anymore but — I didn’t go in. He asked me if I wanted to go into the house and I felt kind of weird about it. Still do, ‘cause that was the day after she disappeared and umm, yeah, that was, that was strange.
Dave Cawley: Now by that point, Josh was already overdue for his police interview. When his sister Jennifer arrived, she learned he’d had other priorities that morning.
Jennifer Graves: We got there and Josh wasn’t even kind of close to being ready. Just wandering around the, the house doing things. He, y’know, I kind of peeked out into the garage. He’d, he’d come out from the backyard into the garage with this big armful of, it looked like kind of wet rags and stuff, and umm, he came in. He, I mean he was doing lots of different, it looked like a lot of cleaning. And he put in a load of laundry. Like, “why are you doing that? Your wife is missing.” And y’know these aren’t the kind of things that people do when you are not guilty.
Dave Cawley: Jennifer suspected Josh’d done something horrible. She felt if she could just get her brother out the door and to the police station, the nightmare of the previous 24 hours might end. Shards of glass from the window the police had smashed still glittered on the living room carpet. Josh asked her to vacuum them up, so the boys wouldn’t cut themselves.
Jennifer Graves: Y’now, he’s listing off a, y’know, dozen — and change the laundry — different things. He wants us to do all these things. And I don’t feel comfortable with this. I really don’t. But what am I supposed to say, you know? Like, agree with anything he says at the moment, (laughs) first of all. Finally, finally he gets through and finishes his shower and leaves. … And I just, I tell my mom, “I don’t like this situation. I don’t think we should be cleaning anything. I, I think that this isn’t right.” And so she called the police and asked them about it. And what are they supposed to say? “Don’t touch anything.” I mean they don’t know where we’re at with our loyalties, how much we’re going to be doing to help him and try to cover up problems and things that he’s done. They have no idea. So of course, they’re going to play it cool. And we didn’t find this out until, I can’t remember exactly how much longer that, before they show up, and my heart just sank. They show up at the door and I’m like, “I knew it. I knew we shouldn’t have been doing anything.” But what can you do?
Dave Cawley: Josh finally made it to the West Valley police headquarters just after noon, more than three hours late. A black knit cap sat on his head, tugged down low over his ears. He wore dirty white sneakers, denim pants, a t-shirt and a black leather jacket. At a quarter to 1, Josh and Ellis entered an interview room. Cameras were rolling. This is the actual recording.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Now on, on the way over here, I actually did call my attorneys and they said I should definitely have an attorney.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): What’s that?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I called my attorneys, which is Prepaid Legal—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): —and they said that I should definitely have an attorney.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Dude, I didn’t read you your Miranda Rights, have I?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): That’s what they said.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok. Well, let me ask you this then, ok?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): This is, do you feel like you’re under arrest?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): (Sniffling) I, I don’t, I don’t know. I didn’t even think it was that, it didn’t even sink in yesterday but I don’t know where she’s at and she ain’t back yet.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): ‘Kay.
Dave Cawley: Josh’s behavior and body language were much different than they’d been on Monday night. He sniffled a lot. His voice wavered, as if he might break out in sobs at any moment. He kept looking at the backs of his hands, which were dry and wind-burned. Ellis’d taken pictures of Josh’s hands the night before, documenting a few small nicks in his skin. The scrutiny seemed to really spook Josh.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): What are you worried about? What are you concerned about?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): You guy, y’know, have implied some things and so it concerns me.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): We’ve implied what?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Well, you’ve implied that my hands have some kind of defensive wounds on ‘em just because they’re all cut up and that’s just, that’s just the way they are.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): So that shouldn’t be anything you need to worry about then. Right?
Dave Cawley: You can see pictures those of Josh’s hands at thecoldpodcast.com.
Josh said he wanted to leave. Ellis wanted him to stay, but not if Josh planned to call a lawyer.
Ellis Maxwell: If they request a lawyer, you’re not gonna get the answers you want. You’re not going to get those direct answers. They’re going to consult their attorney or their attorney’s gonna tell ‘em not to answer. And they’re gonna, it’s just, there’s no, there’s no win when you get a defense attorney that’s gonna answer questions for a suspect.
Dave Cawley: They sparred for the better part of a half an hour, until Josh finally caved.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Yeah, go ahead and ask the questions.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok, you understand, you don’t have to be here, alright?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): And you need to understand that. If you want to leave, you can leave at any time.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Alright.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): You’re not under arrest. I’m not detaining you, ok?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): If you don’t want to be here, you can leave. If you don’t want to talk, you don’t have to talk—
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Well I want to talk but—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I’m just simply saying that I want to find your wife.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I just want to talk but I’m getting scared. (Sniffling)
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Well, I mean if you haven’t done nothing wrong Josh, if you didn’t do anything wrong there’s nothing to be scared about. Right?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Well I’m scared (sniffling) about the possibilities—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): ‘Kay.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): —of what’s happened.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Well I’m, I’m worried about the possibilities of what happened too because I have no idea where she’s at and you don’t either. And that’s why I need your help.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Alright. Yeah, go ahead and ask the questions.
Dave Cawley: A subtle shift occurred in Josh’s demeanor. His posture relaxed. The sniffles disappeared. The tone of his voice flattened. Ellis settled in as well and started asking questions. He probed Josh and Susan’s background: when they married, why they came to Utah, their friends, their work histories, their finances, their daily routines.
Josh took long pauses before speaking, only to then offer one or two word answers. Ellis’d move on, then Josh would then suddenly interrupt with some insignificant detail. At one point, he even bragged about how little he could spend feeding his family.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): It’s also cheaper sometimes because we go to DelTaco—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Yeah.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): —for Tuesday and we can eat our whole family for $5.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Really? Wow.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): $4.70.
Dave Cawley: Ellis tried to keep the conversation on track. He asked about the weekend leading up to Susan’s disappearance. Josh said on Saturday, they’d gone to Home Depot and Lowes with the boys for the free children’s activities. Susan usually didn’t attend those events because of her work schedule but had taken the morning off for a church breakfast and decided to come along. Around noon, she left in the family’s minivan, their only car, on her way to work. When she came back that evening, they had neighbor JoVanna Owings’ son watch their boys.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Tell me everything you did that night. (Long pause) What you guys talked about, what you argued, you’re sitting here thinking, I know you’re thinking—
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): We didn’t, we didn’t uh, we didn’t, we weren’t arguing. We had a babysitter. I think her son Alex was babysitting and I can’t remember what, can’t remember what we were doing with the babysitter there.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok. So you don’t remember what you guys did from 6 o’clock until you went to bed on Saturday night?
(Pause)
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I just don’t remember what activity we were doing.
Dave Cawley: That’s very unlikely. They’d attended a company Christmas party for Josh’s work, Aspen Logistics. Ellis moved on, asking about Sunday. Josh told the same story he had the night before, with some subtle differences. He said Susan’d gone to church with the boys while he stayed home. Around noon, he went to the grocery store, then he came back and fixed lunch.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Umm, so I made an omelet and some kind of pancakes and I put cream cheese in ‘em. (Pause) I think that was all. Oh, and then she called JoVanna. Umm, (pause) anyway JoVanna came over.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Mmhmm.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): She had some pancakes, too.
Dave Cawley: Josh again described Susan getting sleepy and taking a nap, JoVanna going home, Susan waking up to eat hot dogs, and then Josh taking Charlie to go sledding.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I was talking to my son about s’mores. He was just super excited about cocoa and s’mores. (Laughs) “There’s snow, you gotta eat cocoa, it’s Christmas.” (Pause) Then we watched a movie. Well no, then we, umm, no she wanted the couch cleaned so I did the Rug Doctor. We try to do something each week, y’know. Umm, it’s too hard if it’s all wet and once and it dries slow. So we, (pause) umm, then we watched a movie. And I think that was probably Santa Claus 3.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Mmhmm.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Umm, (long pause) then we, uh, finished up the movie and I talked to her about uh, about taking the boys to do s’mores and to try out the new generator, y’know.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Mmhmm.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): And she went to bed and I finished packing and loaded them up.
Dave Cawley: Ellis wanted to know, had Susan raised a stink about Josh leaving in the middle of the night on a Sunday, with a blizzard bearing down, with the boys, in their only car, when they both had to work the next morning?
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Did you make arrangements, uh, did you guys talk arrangements for her getting to work?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I was thinking it was going to be Sunday and I didn’t even think about work.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): And her?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I guess it didn’t cross her mind at the time.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok. And then what time, what time did you say that she went to bed?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Probably 12:30ish.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok. (Pause) Was there anything said before she went to bed? Any, did you guys talk about anything else before she went to sleep?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): We just hugged and said goodnight. That’s about it.
Dave Cawley: Ellis asked Josh what he’d packed in the minivan. Josh said the generator, heater, humidifier, extra clothes, camping supplies and a bunch of other stuff.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): And what’s the bunch of this other stuff?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I don’t know, I mean—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Oh c’mon Josh, you remember putting—
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): (Nervous laugh) There’s—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): —cream cheese in a pancake and you tell me you can’t remember what you put in your car?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I mean, that’s basically all the significant stuff.
Dave Cawley: Josh said he’d left the house with the boys sometime around 1:30 or 2 a.m., driving directly out to the Pony Express Trail. He had a full tank of gas and made no stops or detours.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): But it was also snowing and so it, I was pretty focused on the road—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Mmkay.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): —looking for a turn-off. Like I say, I just found a trail and—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Weren’t you concerned with the snow, knowing that there was a snow storm coming in?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Umm, yeah I was—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): In a minivan?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Actually, the minivan handles like a four-by-four.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok.
(Both chuckle)
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Umm, yeah you can get on some serious off-roading with that minivan.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok. So I mean, wasn’t that a concern with the storm coming in and it was already snowing?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): It wasn’t already snowing when I left.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): No, it was snowing when you got out there.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): It was, yeah. And so I was watching the road and I’m going “how thick is this gonna get?”
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Mmhmm.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): And y’know “are we going to get stuck?” Then I thought, “well,” y’know, “what are the odds that it’ll be anything that will get us stuck out there?”
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Mmhmm.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Y’know and we have the generator and the heaters and so it’s like “well, we can risk it.”
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Yeah.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): We’re already here, what the heck, y’know?
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok. So about how far do you think you went west on the trail if you had to guess?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I don’t know, maybe 20 miles or who knows.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Mmkay. So maybe 20 miles.
Dave Cawley: It was the same vague answer he’d given on Monday night. Josh had Ellis at a disadvantage here. The detective, he didn’t know the geography.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Honestly, I’ve gotta be honest with you, I’ve never been out there. I need to make a trip—
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I haven’t been out there too often. It’s a nasty road. But—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): So I don’t know if, ok. So I don’t know if there’s like any landmarks—
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): There’s not.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): If there’s campgrounds all along the road.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I don’t think so.
Dave Cawley: In fact, there’s only one formal campground along the old Pony Express route in Utah’s West Desert. It’s at Simpson Springs. Most of the land along the trail is public and open to primitive camping, meaning people can set up wherever they want, for free. That’s Josh’s kind of trip. And it’s exactly what he said he did. He claimed to have reached his campsite sometime around 4 a.m. on Monday.
Now, that timeline does work. I personally retraced the route he described by driving it myself in early December of 2017. You can read about that trip at thecoldpodcast.com.
Considering the time necessary to set up the generator, heaters and humidifier, Josh wouldn’t have made it to sleep until about 4:30 a.m. He told Ellis he’d come awake with the sunrise, even though the sun was obscured by the storm, at about 7 a.m. That would have been a very short night of sleep. After waking, Josh said he made a camp fire and roasted marshmallows. He and the boys kicked around their campsite for a couple of hours, then drove aimlessly along various dirt trails. Around noon he turned for home.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): So where’d you stop and wash the car at?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Just uh, just the first car wash I saw.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Where’s that at?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): In, I guess it’s in Lehi.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): What road were you on?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Couldn’t tell you. That one that comes through Lehi.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok. What was the carwash like? What kind of a carwash was it?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Umm, well it was a self-serve.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Self serve?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Yeah.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok. What was the name of it?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I have no clue.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): How did you pay it, for the services?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): With cash.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): ‘Kay. So when you say self-serve, is that umm, describe what it looks like.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Just garages that you can pull into and wash.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): You just get your pressure washer and—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): No attendant that’s there, no gas station? Ok.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): No, there—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): How many bays are there?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I don’t even know. There’s, there’s a handful.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): What side of the road is it on?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): North.
Dave Cawley: And on and on it went. I wanted to know if Josh might have made up this car wash, so I kept an eye out for it during my re-enactment trip. There are two car washes on the north side of Lehi’s Main Street between Redwood Road and I-15. One is attached to a gas station, so that wasn’t the right one. The other has four self-serve bays, just as Josh described.
Cell service was, and still is, spotty to non-existent in the West Desert. But I checked my phone at the car wash. It had full bars. Josh hadn’t bothered to turn on his phone while he was there.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Did you have any voicemails on your phone from her? I’m sure she was probably concerned for—
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Umm, y’know what—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): —you and the boys.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): —I was making calls this morning and I didn’t realize, I guess my phone has been just bugging out, so—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): What do you mean?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Umm, (pause) it just cuts out and—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): —and dies, y’know.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok, but that doesn’t stop your voicemail.
Dave Cawley: The interview was getting ridiculous. When Ellis asked Josh where officers ought to look for Susan, he suggested beauty supply stores. Then, he added something he’d not said on Monday night. He told Ellis Susan had been suicidal.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): How did that affect your guys’ relationship?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Umm, well, we started seeing a counselor. Oh and she was depressed that I wasn’t going to church.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Umm, so, umm, things been going good, y’know?
Dave Cawley: I should point out here that in all of the materials of Susan’s I’ve read — her emails, her adult journal — I’ve not seen anything that would corroborate the claim she was suicidal.
Ellis decided it was time for a break. He’d been talking to Josh for nearly three hours. He stepped out of the room to check with the rest of his team. Another detective, Tony Martell, came in to keep Josh from leaving. The sniffles and sobs immediately returned.
Tony Martell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Well tell me how you’re feeling right now. Just see if I can help you out. What’s going on?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): (Sniffles) Umm…
Tony Martell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I mean, let me help you out man, ok? Seriously.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): (Sniffles) Umm, (pause) I’m honestly kind of confused and distracted and pretty worried.
Tony Martell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): What are you worried about?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I just don’t think she would — it’s okay. (Josh waves off tissues) Umm, I’m just worried about what the possibilities are, y’know? And, umm, I’m not getting more encouraged over time.
Tony Martell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Right.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): (Sniffles) I mean there’s obviously a little bit of worry about y’know, what, y’know, what’s gonna to happen to me or my boys, y’know? But…
Tony Martell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Right. What can I do to help you with that?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I, I don’t know.
Tony Martell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Then that’s what I’m here for. I want to—
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Just have to take it one, one day at a time.
Tony Martell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Right.
Dave Cawley: Martell didn’t buy it. Here’s Ellis Maxwell.
Ellis Maxwell: Yeah, he was, he was taking advantage of, y’know, a new person being in the room. He was, he was taking that opportunity to, yeah, literally put on an act, saying “oh, my wife.” Which was all nonsense. At the end of the day, is what he’s doing is trying to take advantage of the detective. What he didn’t know is the detective had already watched and had been monitoring, right, the entire time — I mean we’re not dumb — and uh, y’know, so it wasn’t going to go anywhere.
Dave Cawley: Josh kept up the emotion.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Are you a grief counselor or something?
Tony Martell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): No, I’m a detective for West Valley. I am. Y’know, it’s just uh, come in here to say hi while he’s on the phone so you’re not here by yourself wondering what’s going on.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Well I appreciate it ‘cause every time I sit in here by myself I just want to leave.
Tony Martell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Yeah, I don’t want you to do that ‘cause we got to get, y’know, figure out what can help you, y’know?
Dave Cawley: When Ellis returned, Josh switched back to the blank, emotionless stare.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I need you to tell me what you think has happened to her.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I don’t think she would leave on her own.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok, that’s a start. You don’t think she would leave on her own. What do you, what do you think has happened?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I just don’t know. I mean, y’know, you can sit and speculate but I don’t have any clue.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok. What do you think I’m speculating?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I don’t know.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Well something must have crossed your mind for you to say that to me.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Well, you guys, y’know, I mean, it’s a fact, y’know? The closest people to a person is always the top suspects, so—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok. They’re not suspects. I mean, you have to, I mean there has to be some type of involvement to be a suspect. I mean, uh maybe, I mean so it’s not always like that.
Dave Cawley: Josh clearly understood the cloud of suspicion that surrounded him and the risk he’d taken showing up at the police station. Ellis reassured him he was not under arrest. But at the same time, he needed to turn their conversation into an interrogation.
Ellis Maxwell: Obviously, I felt he was responsible. It’s very clear that he’s responsible. And the last thing I wanted to do is to get some information and then later be in court and it be all redacted because, y’know now I, I illegally obtained this information and I violated his civil rights.
Dave Cawley: He needed to ask why Josh had had Susan’s cell phone in the minivan and why its SIM card was missing.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): And we need to get this figureds out. I have other questions, I have a couple of other questions that I want to ask you, ok?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Umm, and in order for me to ask you these questions and then ask you to do something else, I have to read you your Miranda Rights. Ok?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Why?
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): The reason why is because it’s a—
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): What, what does this mean “read me my—”
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): —ok, let me explain to you.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I’m not sure what you’re getting at.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok, let me explain to you.
Ellis Maxwell: That’s probably one of the most challenging things in police work and in investigative work is when you have a suspect or person of interest and you’re interviewing them and moving into an interrogation, you’ve got to read them their rights. Right? And you’ve gotta do that in a fashion that you want them to talk to you still.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): You’re not under arrest, you’re not going to jail. Ok?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): ‘Kay.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I’m not going to cuff you up. Like I said, again, you’re not under arrest. You came here on your free will, you can leave at any time. You already knew that, you still know that, right? Although I want to ask you more specific questions and umm, and I want to see if you say that you’re willing to help us out, then what do we need to do? We need to eliminate you as being a person of interest. There’s nobody else out there for me to go and talk to and to clarify. So I need to clarify your story. I need to verify your story—
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I guess—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): —right?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I guess at that point then I need to—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): So I need to verify—
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I probably need to consider—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): So I need to—
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): —a lawyer, y’know.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): And if that’s the case then that’s just going to prolong the, umm, well whatever. I, I’m, what I’m going to do is I’m going to read you your rights, ok?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Well I’ve told you everything that I know.
Dave Cawley: Josh would not crack. The time had come for Ellis to make a gambit.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I’m going to read you your rights. Ok? We have your house. You’re not going to be able to go back to your house. ‘Kay?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): What do you mean?
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Your house is ours for right now. We’re not going to let you back into that house.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Your car is ours. We’re not going to let you have your car. Ok? We need to find her, right? Isn’t that what your goal is? I’d hope that our goals are the same.
Ellis Maxwell: The look on his face was great and the feeling was wonderful for me and I was very hopeful that we would find something in his van or inside the home that would support that he was responsible.
Dave Cawley: Ellis read Josh his Miranda rights, not once but twice, and asked if he still wanted to talk. Josh wouldn’t give a straight answer.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): It’s yes or no.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I don’t know if I’m ready to do that.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): It’s yes or no.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): (Unintelligible)
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): It’s yes or no. Do you want to have a minute to think about it?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): No, I was, y’know, I was already a little bit concerned.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Well, I’m concerned about your wife not being around. So, let me step out for a second. I’ll come back and grab you. ‘Kay?
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Grab me for what?
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Well if you don’t want to talk…
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Then what?
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Then I guess you’re going to leave.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I mean, you could leave any time anyways.
Dave Cawley: Josh stood, a look of relief on his face.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I, yeah, I mean, let me think about it for a couple days and—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): (Chuckles) Your wife is missing, Josh—
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Yeah but, I’ve already—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): —and you want to think about it for a couple of days?
Dave Cawley: Ellis left the room. Just as Josh was about to follow, Detective Martell appeared again. He coaxed Josh back into his seat. There were no sniffles this time.
Ellis Maxwell: When I go out, that’s when I learn that uh, y’know, we have the children and we’ve got them at the Children’s Justice Center and another detective had done a, a fabulous job doing a forensic interview, as best as she could.
Dave Cawley: Remember, Josh’d left Charlie and Braden with his mom and sister. In her brother’s absence, Jennifer had tried to prove to the police that her loyalty was to Susan and to the truth.
Jennifer Graves: So, I just told them. I tried, I tried to, y’know, off, off to the side where my mom couldn’t hear so much, y’know, I tried, I just, I told them, “hey look, this isn’t a good situation. I think that there’s something going on here, and I don’t know exactly, but I’m willing to help. Whatever you need. Whatever you need me to do, I’m wiling to help.”
Dave Cawley: The police asked Jennifer to take the boys to the South Valley Children’s Justice Center, so she did. Charlie was four going on five, so not the most reliable witness.
Ellis Maxwell: Y’know, you can’t put a lot of credit in the children’s sense of time at that age.
Dave Cawley: Still, he said enough. Charlie said mommy’d gone camping with them, but stayed in the place with the shiny rocks and pretty flowers. To Ellis, that sounded a lot like the West Desert.
Ellis Maxwell: So, it’s some information. Is it the information we need that’s going to get us what we want? No. But I, I take advantage of it and I go back in.
Dave Cawley: Josh was making a move for the door when Ellis reappeared.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Well have a seat. You might want to sit down for this one.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Umm, I just spoke with some of — sorry, this chair’s screwed up — I just just spoke with some of our other detectives. Umm, and you’re gonna have to wait here with us. You’re not gonna go anywhere. Umm, one of our detectives just, uh, interviewed your children and uh, your children are telling our detectives that uh mom went with you guys last night and that she didn’t come back.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): She did not go with us.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): ‘Kay. Well, with that, just getting that information, you’re not gonna go anywhere. I’m not gonna let you leave. I’m gonna detain you. You sit right here. If you want a lawyer and you want to talk or you want to change your mind and talk or take a CVSA test, umm, then we can do those things, but…
Tony Martell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): ‘Kay, now with that in mind—
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): They know that she didn’t go with us.
Dave Cawley: Ellis admitted to me that he’d entered dangerous territory here.
Ellis Maxwell: I told him he wasn’t going to leave and, y’know, maybe violated his rights for 10 seconds but it was frustrating. Y’know, I’d never in my career experienced, uh, an individual like that before.
Dave Cawley: Josh was literally and figuratively in a corner, under the withering stares of two detectives who obviously believed he was responsible for his wife’s disappearance. Suddenly, every assurance he’d received that he could leave whenever he wanted evaporated.
Tony Martell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Let’s go back to the rights really quick, you’re not leaving either way. ‘Kay? So what I want to do is I want to have you answer some questions for us because you can’t leave either way. But what I want you to be aware of is that you have rights. ‘Kay? And it would probably be to your best interest to listen to these rights—
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Well, ok—
Tony Martell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): —that he’s going to read to you.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): —but I do want the lawyer. Because at this point, I definitely want a lawyer.
Tony Martell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): So where is, where do I get the, in fact…
Dave Cawley: Ellis took Josh’s phone, then he and Detective Martell left the room. They were gone for three full minutes. During that time, Josh sat almost perfectly still, his ankles crossed, head high and fingers interlaced. He didn’t cry. He didn’t fidget. Ellis couldn’t believe it.
Ellis Maxwell: I don’t think I was frustrated to the point that I botched the interview. I’m not the greatest detective that’s out there by no means, however I think that I have a, a, a pretty good skill set and the ability to read individuals and get them to speak with me. Josh and uh, his type — these sociopaths — are an exception.
Dave Cawley: If Josh wasn’t going to talk, Ellis needed something else.
Ellis Maxwell: There has to be some sort of physical evidence or forensic evidence that’s going to support whatever criminal charges.
Dave Cawley: Short of that, he had to let Josh walk.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): So before I call, I just want to make sure. If I call an attorney, do you want to talk more—
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Umm.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): —or no?
(Long pause)
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Honestly, I’m already feeling sick. I’m, I wanted to go a long time ago and at this point I’m—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok, if you want to leave, you can leave.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I can leave?
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Yeah, if you want to leave, you can leave.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Ok, now, and you’re keeping my phone?
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I’m going to keep your phone.
(Sound of door closing)
Dave Cawley: After nearly four hours, the interview ended.
[Scene transition]
Dave Cawley: Listening to the recording now, it’s hard to understand why Ellis let Josh leave. I asked him to explain his thinking in that moment.
Ellis Maxwell: Y’know, it’s all kind of circumstantial, right? You can’t tie it to a specific crime. You can’t say that Josh is responsible for her disappearance based off of any of that because we don’t have any witnesses, we have no confession and we have no body.
Dave Cawley: To use a chess analogy, he’d put Josh in check, one move away from game-over. But Josh kept moving his pieces just enough to stay out of check-mate. The police needed to trap Josh. The rest of the major crimes team had been at work drafting warrants while Josh and Ellis were talking.
Ellis Maxwell: Y’know, there was enough evidence there that, and, and suspicion, right, reasonable suspicion, that we could secure these just based off, y’know, of his lack of statements, his story, y’know, Susan not having any criminal history, no, no past of running off and abandoning her family. So you’ve got a lot of stuff like that can support the reasonable suspicion but you don’t have the probable cause to put the guy into jail.
Dave Cawley: Two detectives had also gone to Susan’s work that afternoon. Now, during both of Josh’s interviews with police, he mentioned a coworker of Susan’s named Linda. The two detectives who went to Wells Fargo Investments wanted to find Linda. But Linda Bagley wasn’t there. It was her day off.
Linda Bagley: Tuesday I had off and my other coworker sent me a message saying “have you seen Susan or talked to Susan?” And I said “no.’ And she says “she’s missing.”
Dave Cawley: Linda’s mind raced. She thought about all of their conversations, all of Susan’s frustration with her marriage and talk of divorce, how she’d said “if something ever happens to me, make sure they look at Josh.” Linda knew Susan kept a set of secret personal files in her desk drawer.
Linda Bagley: I told my coworker to make sure she gave this information file folder to the police because I wasn’t there. I’d seen it like in my drawer though a week or two beforehand and thought “oh yeah, I remember Susan told me about this folder” and uh, and then she disappeared, so…
Dave Cawley: The detectives recovered the documents including a journal, a typed description of a trip Susan had taken with Josh and the boys to Simpson Springs the prior May, notes about divorce attorneys and significant fights with Josh as well as copies of emails in which she described extreme unhappiness with the state of her marriage.
The detectives also checked in with the Wells Fargo security team. They confirmed Susan’s badge hadn’t been scanned since she left the building at the end of her shift the afternoon of Saturday, December 5th. Security cameras had recorded her walking out to the garage and driving away in the family’s minivan.
[Scene transition]
Dave Cawley: Back at the station, Detective David Greco finished writing a search warrant for the house and minivan. In it, he explained a need for police to seize property — including at least two computers officers had seen at the house on Monday. The warrant made clear they expected to find evidence of crimes, possibly including obstruction of justice, unlawful detention, kidnapping and murder.
Josh left the interrogation room at about 4:15 p.m. on Tuesday afternoon. While he was technically free to leave, he had no car and no phone with which to call for a ride. Ellis had assured him he could have the van back that night, once he finished searching it.
Ellis Maxwell: And we wanted him to stick around, I mean obviously. We want him to stick around and get back in his minivan and we want to see where he goes, right? Hopefully he returns to the location wherever he disposed of her.
Dave Cawley: But it was going to take some time. The judge didn’t sign the warrants until about 7 p.m. Ellis led the search of the minivan. First, he had a forensics expert scan the tailgate, cargo area and front seats for blood. He found nothing. A cadaver dog also sniffed the minivan but didn’t show any interest.
The inside of the van looked very different than it had the night before. All of the clutter was gone. The camping supplies, the tools, the generator and the rest had all been removed. Ellis found a camera, a flash drive and a white plastic trash bag sitting in the open.
The garbage appeared to have come from the kitchen of the house. The bag held all the slimy refuse one might expect — banana peels, orange rinds and fast food wrappers. Of more interest were a pancake, a breakfast pastry, a used paper plate and an empty container of orange juice concentrate. Now, these were presumably from the lunch Josh had prepared on Sunday, just before Susan started feeling drowsy.
Ellis Maxwell: So clearly we took it. We analyzed everything out of there. It was a theory that he poisoned or sedated Susan. Y’know, whether if it was with prescription medication or whatever but we felt that he’d like put something in her food because he’d cooked her some food, y’know, that Sunday.
Dave Cawley: Tests on the garbage would later come back negative for any drugs. Still, it seemed odd for Josh to have placed the kitchen trash in the minivan.
Ellis Maxwell: Both of his garbage cans outside of the residence were empty so he could have easily thrown that garbage sack in the garbage cans at his residence but he chose not to. He chose to put it in his van and he was going to dispose of it elsewhere. I don’t think expected us to take custody of his van.
Dave Cawley: Ellis found something else in the van, too — another trash bag, hidden behind the driver seat.
Ellis Maxwell: In the floorboard there’s a storage space and when you open that, there was another garbage sack and it contains several pieces of heavily burnt drywall, sheetrock, whatever you want to call it. And if you put it all together, you can see that — ‘cause it was broken, so it’s in several pieces — you can see that umm, he had sheetrock piled. So he had a few pieces on top and then he put it, some sort of an object on there and destroyed it with some heavy heat.
Dave Cawley: Ellis couldn’t make sense of the burned object. Whatever it’d been, it was beyond recognition.
Ellis Maxwell: He did have an acetylene torch in the garage so it’s very likely that he used that torch to destroy whatever this item was. And this item was also in there as well but it was just like a, just a black hard, almost like a rock the size of your palm. And, y’know, there was a couple of wires as well.
Dave Cawley: West Valley eventually sent the item to a special FBI lab, but tests were inconclusive. They showed it was largely steel, which would seem to rule out small electronics, like a cell phone, GPS unit or hard drive. To this day, Ellis can’t say what that object was.
Meanwhile, at the house, a team of seven detectives paid special attention to the area where the two fans had been pointed in the living room. They wanted to know if Josh had used his Rug Doctor to clean blood from the couch or carpet. Forensic specialists applied a product called Blue Star on and around the couch. Blue Star can help reveal the presence of blood by reacting with hemoglobin, the iron-rich protein in blood that carries oxygen throughout the body. A series of small spots on the tile floor between the couch and the front door started to glow blue: a clear indication.
Ellis Maxwell: That’s not something that was obvious when you first entered the residence. It wasn’t a significant amount of blood.
Dave Cawley: These spots themselves were very small.
Ellis Maxwell: This blood is just tiny, like probably even smaller than the end of a ballpoint pen. And they just, they look like little droplets on the tile that’s adjacent to the carpet and the couch.
Dave Cawley: Ellis said it wasn’t as if someone had been shot or stabbed there.
Ellis Maxwell: This is how I interpreted it when I saw it. I would describe it as if you were to lean over to your left and cough or sneeze and you had some sort of blood, y’know, in your nasal cavity or in your throat or mouth, that’s what I would compare it to.
Dave Cawley: The forensic team swabbed each spot, collecting samples to be used for DNA analysis. It would later prove to be Susan’s blood. The Blue Star also revealed a small blood swipe mark on the upper headrest of the couch, about where your shoulder would be when sitting. Again, it wasn’t a lot of blood but it did turn out to be Susan’s.
Ellis Maxwell: Y’know, that’s our evidence. We have a heavily destroyed object that we can’t identify. We have a sack full of garbage that we can’t find any clues as to why he would want to dispose of it elsewhere other than his own garbage can and we have some minor, tiny blood droplets in the front room and a blood swipe, a small blood swipe on the couch and that’s it.
Dave Cawley: They tried Blue Star on the circular saw and plastic sled that had been in the minivan the night before. Neither reacted. The Scooby-Doo onesie and most of the blankets that had been in the van on Monday night sitting in a laundry basket in the master bedroom. They appeared to have been cleaned. In the bedroom closet, they found a letter to Susan from Josh’s dad, Steve.
Ken Fall (as Steve Powell from October 30, 2009 letter to Susan Cox Powell): Dear Susan, happy birthday. Sorry it’s so late. In the little sack is a necklace I though would look nice with a casual outfit. If you don’t like it, don’t make a special trip to return it, since it was not that expensive.
Dave Cawley: Susan had kept that necklace, reluctantly. In an email on November 10th, just shy of a month before she disappeared, she asked a coworker how she looked that day.
Kristen Sorensen (as Susan Powell from November 10, 2009 email): The necklace I’m unsure of, the wicked father in law mailed it to me.
Dave Cawley: Also in the closet, the detectives spied a small notebook in Susan’s handwriting. It contained 26 pages written in one sitting — it was the letter Susan had written to Josh a year earlier while praying for guidance about her marriage at a temple. It seemed damning from the very first page.
Kristen Sorensen (as Susan Powell from November, 2008 letter to Josh Powell): I am not threatening divorce, but what you ask of me is too great to bear. You must understand that my religion is a part of me. You can’t ask me to pick and choose only certain parts of it to live and expect me to be happy.
Dave Cawley: Detectives grabbed Susan’s purse from the bedroom dresser. In it, they found her driver license, her checkbook, her credit and debit cards, various store cards and receipts, a temple recommend for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, photos and a pocket calendar. Several events were marked on the calendar for the days that week. They included a potluck dinner, a church choir practice and a concert Susan’d planned to attend with Josh’s sister, Jennifer.
She’d even made elaborate plans to overdress for her work’s black-tie Christmas party on December 10th. It was supposed to be a big joke, because she and a coworker had gotten into trouble for showing up in jeans the year prior. She wrote this about it in an email.
Kristen Sorensen (as Susan Powell from December 4, 2009 email): So I’m wearing an old formal this year. It’s maroon velvet rose pattern on black. … I’m trying to get a hold of a child’s dress-up crown and I’ll do my hair in an up-do to continue the overstatement. Dark, smoky eyes and any other big, shiny jewelry I can get my hands on. I’m way excited.
Dave Cawley: These were not the plans of a woman who intended to disappear.
The detectives took the Rug Doctor and the bag from the Kirby vacuum cleaner, both of which were still sitting in the master bedroom. From the living room, they took the entire couch, a white yarn blanket and they even cut up a big patch of the carpet. In the laundry room, they retrieved eight clean washcloths, which the day before had been soggy, sitting wet in the bathtub.
In the garage, they found some but not all of what had been in the minivan on Monday night: two blue tarps, one of them muddy, the shovel, the broom and the rake. Inexplicably, they left behind much more, including the generator, gas can, sleds, camping supplies and hand tools.
They took five computers out of the house, along with seven hard drives or thumb drives. They didn’t realize it then, but Josh’s digital devices would eventually become a key part of the story. Remember, Ellis even wrapped their second interview by taking Josh’s cell phone.
Tony Martell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Don’t come out.
Josh Powell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I thought you said you were going to give me the phone.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Mmm, I don’t know.
Tony Martell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): I think, I think what we’ll do is—
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): We’ll hang onto it.
Tony Martell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): —we’re gonna hang onto it for evidence at this point.
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): Yeah.
Tony Martell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): ‘Kay?
Ellis Maxwell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): We’re going to keep it.
Tony Martell (from December 8, 2009 police interview recording): And it’s gonna be part of the case.
Dave Cawley: Investigators hoped to pull data from the phone’s SIM card, but Josh had anticipated the move. While sitting in the interrogation room, he had managed to surreptitiously slip the SIM card out of the phone before Ellis could take it.
Modern smartphones rely almost exclusively on internal storage or removable memory, like SD cards, to hold information. Older cell phones, like most of those available during the mid-2000s, came with little onboard data storage. Instead, they often saved stuff like contacts, text messages, call histories or cellular network tower information on their SIM cards.
In 2009, GPS functionality was just finding its way into smartphones. Budget phones like the one Josh owned didn’t include GPS receivers, meaning they couldn’t self-locate. Police could only determine cell phone locations if they knew which towers a particular device had contacted. Josh understood all of this. By removing his SIM card, he effectively tried to block the police from seeing where he’d been or whom he had called.
Detective Darrell Dain immediately sent a letter to T-Mobile, Josh’s cell phone provider, asking them to preserve records as evidence of a possible crime. That crime, according to the letter, was aggravated murder. The records did confirm Josh’s claim that he had called his father at about a quarter after noon on Sunday. After that, his handset went dark. It didn’t connect to any towers until just after 3 p.m. on Monday, when JoVanna’s son Alex called him.
Ellis Maxwell: It’s interesting because he takes that phone call for whatever reason — I don’t know if he accidentally answered it, maybe it doesn’t have JoVanna’s number — I, I don’t, I don’t know. I don’t know why he answered but he answered it and he’s in West Valley.
Dave Cawley: Think about that. Josh was in West Valley at 3 p.m., just a few blocks north of home near the city’s family fitness center. But he told JoVanna that he was down south, just off the Pony Express Trail. After speaking with JoVanna and learning police were waiting at the house Josh turned around and left West Valley. A half-hour later, he dialed his voicemail and retrieved his messages. Two minutes after that, he called Susan’s phone, the one that was right next to him in the van’s center console.
Josh Powell (from December 7, 2009 Susan Powell voicemail recording): Hello Susan, we are on our way back and umm, anyway I can’t believe that somehow my brain missed a day. I thought today was Sunday. Umm, that was really, really stupid but umm, anyway. Hopefully you got to work ok and umm, of course, give me a call or I guess we’re planning on picking you up but let me know ‘cause, umm, if you have plans after work or whatever. So, anyway we ran into every conceivable problem and anyway it was kind of a nightmare but oh well, I mean, there was some fun aspects. Alright, I’ll talk to you later, okay, bye.
Dave Cawley: Both of those outgoing calls went through cell towers near Point of the Mountain. That’s about 20 miles south of West Valley City. Now, Point of the Mountain is back in the direction Josh said he had come after leaving the Pony Express Trail. He’d intentionally gone out of his way to backtrack before leaving that message on Susan’s voicemail. To Ellis, that’s a clear that sign that Josh realized he’d made a mistake.
Ellis Maxwell: ‘Cause he did slip up there, right? Y’know those, those, that voicemail, checking it and making the phone calls should’ve been done when he passed through that area. But his phone was off. His phone was off so that we couldn’t track him. We couldn’t ping his phone, we couldn’t see where his location was.
Dave Cawley: Josh’s sister Jennifer believes he was attempting to build an alibi.
Jennifer Graves: He’s attempting to paint a picture, but the picture is turning out really badly.
Dave Cawley: Ellis told me he believes JoVanna’s son had unwittingly ruined Josh’s plan. Next, Josh drove north, past West Valley to Salt Lake City. The phone records show he went to Susan’s work, where he left her another voicemail.
Josh Powell (from December 7, 2009 Susan Powell voicemail recording): Hello, I’m out here so I’m—
Charlie Powell (from December 7, 2009 Susan Powell voicemail recording): Right now! Right now.
Josh Powell (from December 7, 2009 Susan Powell voicemail recording): —just waiting for you. So anyway I’m, umm, in front. ‘Kay, talk to you soon, bye.
Dave Cawley: In neither police interview did Josh described his movements quite that way. The cell tower records proved that Josh had lied.
Ellis Maxwell: When you look at those facts and you see his movements and his actions and his behavior, uh, he had a tentative plan and we foiled it. And because of his personality, he can’t deviate too far off of his plan, right? So he follows through with it because he has no option. No other options. He didn’t plan for a Plan B or a C.
Dave Cawley: Unfortunately, Ellis had no way of knowing that on the night of December 8th. Josh kept waiting in the lobby of the West Valley police station as the detectives performed their searches. A couple of patrol officers gave him a lift across the street to the Valley Fair Mall, so he could buy some dinner. Then, they drove him back. Jennifer waited as well.
Jennifer Graves: I thought that he was gonna come back that night after the uh, interview that he had with that, with the police on Tuesday morning. And so I just continued to expect a phone call letting us know that he was coming or just him showing up. Honestly, I was dreading it. I really didn’t want him to come back and take the boys. I wanted the boys to stay here with us and, and felt like that was the safest place for them. But time just drug on and it was kind of a nightmare of a, of an evening.
Dave Cawley: Josh didn’t have a cell phone anymore, but there was a phone in the lobby of the police station. He didn’t use it. Police staff reassured him, saying they’d release his minivan soon. Just wait a little bit longer. The judge had given police permission to hide a GPS tracking beacon on the minivan, which they did. Ellis had set a trap. He was hoping Josh would fall for the trap and, in a panic, lead him right to Susan.
Ellis Maxwell: Unfortunately we didn’t get that opportunity. Once again, he doesn’t cooperate, (chuckles) uh, which he never did.
Dave Cawley: Ellis walked into the lobby with Josh’s keys at about 9:40 p.m.
Ellis Maxwell: I go to release the vehicle and he’s gone and patrol officers don’t know where he left and went to. He didn’t say anything, he just up and left.
Dave Cawley: He’d missed Josh by only about 10 minutes. No one could say where Josh had gone. He was, as they say, in the wind.
On the next episode of Cold…
Nineveh Dinha (from December, 2009 news report): Is he a suspect?
Tom McLaughlan (from December, 2009 news report): No, he is not a suspect.
Nineveh Dinha (from December, 2009 news report): Is he person of interest?
Tom McLaughlan (from December, 2009 news report): We have many people we are interested in…
